Sacred Falls Lawsuit — OHE Thread (Oct 2001)

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Sacred Falls Lawsuit — OHE Thread (Oct 2001)



 

Subject: Sacred Falls lawsuit
From: Wing C Ng <wing@lava.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001

Don't know what's happened with the Sacred Falls lawsuit. Usually the jury listens to the testimony and comes out with a verdict right there, they can't be cloistered in there for a month.

While I agree that it was an "act of God", the State was clearly derelict in its duties to maintain a state park: the signs are ridiculously confusing; it says there is a flash flood alarm system, and then added "oops, it is NOT working", and that's been for YEARS AND YEARS.

I wish that the State be punished for being so BAD. It should be responsible for maintaining safety equipment it set up that were deemed essential (or else they should not have been set up.)

Wing

Subject: Re: Sacred Falls lawsuit
From: Steve Rohrmayr <crider@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001

I wish that the State be punished for being so BAD.

Wing last time I looked "you" and I and the rest of us were "the State". At least as far as the source of any money paid out in this law suit. The state only has money it first has taken from "US".

Wai‘anae Steve

Subject: RE: Sacred Falls lawsuit
From: Ralph Valentino <RalphV@huntbuilding.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001

Well Wing, you've just made up my mind never to send any of my kids to law school. They've brainwashed you. Always go after someone who might or might not be responsible, but WHO HAS MONEY.

The state can't maintain the entire park unless it paves everything, installs handrails everywhere, and hires guards every 50 feet. Even Diamond Head has dangers despite paved trails and railings.

The more rules, the more loopholes. The more lawsuits.

Tort reform will never pass — it would put too many lawyers out of business. Everything would cost half as much if it did.

Hey, I hurt my knee backpacking at Mt. Rainier. Who shall I sue? God? Oh wait — no money there.

Ralph
(penniless because he takes responsibility for his own actions, but still hiking)

Subject: RE: Sacred Falls lawsuit
From: Dave Webb <dwebb@mailhost.k12.hi.us>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001

Come on Ralph, get with the system. This is America — nobody is responsible for what they do!

If I get drunk and run over somebody, I blame the bartender. If I kill somebody, I blame my parents. If you're under 18, you can get away with almost anything.

Dave

Subject: RE: Sacred Falls lawsuit
From: Wing C Ng <wing@lava.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001

Unfortunately that's how the law works. Judges have become morons over the years, but juries are still common people with common sense.

When they throw the book at a deep pocket, there's usually a reason — sometimes because the government lawyers are so arrogant.

Wing

Subject: Re: Sacred Falls lawsuit or A world without lawyers??? Lo-o-ong
From: Peter Caldwell <pekelo@lava.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001

Prompted by Ralph's comments, I couldn't resist describing a day in the life
or how my day was affected by the legal profession:

- I am told I cannot see my first patient, a 16-yr old boy who came in
  without a parent. Why? Kaiser fears a lawsuit because he is a minor. I see
  him anyway.

-A mother (3 months pregnant)brings in her 2 1/2-year for a fever. She
  is not feeling well because of morning sickness problems. Unfortunately
  she is unable to take a perfectly safe and effective drug (Bendectin) which
  was pulled off the market because of lawsuits suggesting a relationship with
  birth defects. Subsequent data proved without question that there was no
  relationship. The drug remains off the market.

-A mother of twins spends extra time in the office wading through pages of
  detailed immunization information in the course of a well-child visit.
  Ironically in the extremely unlikely event of a serious reaction, a plaintiff's
  lawyer would say the material was not clear or her physician did not
  adequately explain the risks.

-We run out of stickers for the kids. In the past, we gave school age
  patients balloons but that practice is history (too dangerous says admin =
  afraid of liability in the event of a younger child aspirating a piece of
  broken balloon).

-During lunchtime, I pay an insurance bill, inflated bigtime because of
  umbrella/personal liability coverage.

-A parent whose child was seen by another physician questions the need for
  a variety of tests. I talk around what was clearly a case of classic CYA
  (cover your okole) medicine.

-Pharmacy is closed down for the remainder of the afternoon because of an
  anthrax scare. Logically there is not the remotest chance of infection
  (remember this bug has been around for ages and is common in parts of the USA;
  farmers and ranchers in the SW for example live with it every day and laugh
  at the ridiculous media promoted panic; also easily treated in the majority of
  cases). Nevertheless largely because of fear of liability if they don't do
  something, the administration's stance is not "to take any chances."

-A mother brings in  a febrile first grader directly from school. No fever
  medication was given by the school nurse- not allowed because of the L word
  again.

- A mother brings in a child who has a small cut on the back of his head
  brought about by a fall out of a market basket at nearby Daiei. She wants
  everything documented well because she is contemplating legal action

- An administrator asks me to take down a calendar that hangs in an inconspicuous
  place in my office - given to me by a Tahitian friend 6 months ago. Why?
  Fear of sexual harassment liability.

-On the way home, I hear on the radio of more legislative bumbling brought
  about by a group of legislators many of whom are attorneys and who seem
  incapable of using common sense or taking any action favored by the great
  majority of their constituents.

-My wife and I discuss a possible weekend hike with our son. Our choices of
  course are limited somewhat by access problems brought about by fear of
  you know what.

- We also talk about a January ski trip in Colorado. We accept the fact that
  once again lift tickets will be more expensive largely because of insurance
  needs. In contrast in Europe for example, lift tickets at even bigger areas
  are half the cost because unlike the USA, skiers are basically responsible
  for their own actions.

-I do some work on our trust/will documents, a job made much more difficult by
  the convuluted language created by you guessed it.

-I go to bed thinking you know Shakespeare was right (sorry Wing, nothing
  personal) - Kill all the lawyers!!

Subject: Re: Sacred Falls lawsuit or A world without lawyers???
From: Robert Thomas <rht@hawaiilawyer.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001

Having been a long time lurker, this thread dragged me out. I guess I’ll defend my profession — yes, I’m a lawyer.

Lawyers wrote the Constitution. Lawyers defend the wrongly accused. Lawyers help families survive tragedy without financial ruin.

Are there bad apples? Of course. But anarchy without lawyers would be worse. Shakespeare’s quote was ironic — remove lawyers and chaos follows.

For what it’s worth, I believe the state should be immune from lawsuits like Sacred Falls. Go into the woods — bad things can happen.

See? We’re not all bad.

Robert  (UH Law ’87, Columbia Law ’95)

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